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标题: Open Discussion 2: 留学美国五年以上还能不能用Treaty？ [打印本页]
作者: caiwade 时间: 2014-11-18 16:11
标题: Open Discussion 2: 留学美国五年以上还能不能用Treaty？
本帖最后由 caiwade 于 2014-12-8 12:38 编辑
出来留学大家最关心的问题之一就是传说中的5000刀免税是个什么东东？有没有期限？
简单地说，此中美协议是当年（1984-1987）由**和里根签订的（在treaty里可以看到他们相互发的官方书信），协议地址请戳http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/china.pdf
其中与我们最息息相关的是：
ARTICLE 20 (Students and Trainees)
A student, business apprentice or trainee who is, or was immediately before visiting a Contracting State, a resident of the other Contracting State and who is present in the first- mentioned Contracting State solely for the purpose of his education, training or obtaining special technical experience shall be exempt from tax in that Contracting State with respect to:
(a) payments received from abroad for the purpose of his maintenance, education, study, research or training;
(b) grants or awards from a government, scientific, educational or other tax-exempt organization;
and
(c) income from personal services performed in that Contracting State in an amount not in excess of 5,000 United States dollars or its equivalent in Chinese yuan for any taxable year.
The benefits provided under this Article shall extend only for such period of time as is reasonably necessary to complete the education or training.
下划线部分就给出了$5,000的书面依据，而其中最耐人寻味的却是红字的“根据本条提供的优惠，仅延伸到为完成接受教育或培训所必要的合理时期”。那么这个时期到底为多久？
最常见的说法：五年。这个基本上已经成为约定俗成的说法了。最近的帖子也问到了这个问题。http://www.moonbbs.com/thread-718298-1-1.html
为啥子会有五年的这个说法呢？我能想到两种可能性：一种是一般本科过来I20上最开始写的都是五年的期限。
第二种，如果你跟我一起翻开Publication 519（链接http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf），Page 5，在students那里说到You will not be an exempt individual as a student in 2013 if you have been exempt as a teacher, trainee, or student for any part of more than 5 calendar years unless... 这里不细说，但大意就是学生五年以后报税就要以resident报了。
翻到Page 47，Generally, you must be a nonresident alien student... in order to claim a tax treaty exemption... Once you become a resident alien, you generally can no longer claim a tax treaty exemption for this income.
高能预计请注意，Generally用了两遍，什么意思？有例外啊！紧接着：
However, if you entered the United States as a nonresident alien, but you are now a resident alien for U.S. tax purposes, the treaty exemption will continue to apply if the tax treaty's saving clause provides an exception for it... This is true even if you are a nonresident alien electing to file a joint return as explained in chapter 1.
Ok, 问题就来了，什么是saving clause，什么是它的exception？有兴趣哦的同志请接着读下去，但大意就是美国有征收其resident的权力但是有一些特例，还特别指出中国。Some exceptions to the saving clause apply to all resident aliens (for example, under the U.S.-People's Republic of China treaty).
最后跟了一个非常相关的例子：
Mr. Yu, a citizen of the People's Republic of China, entered the United States as a nonresident alien student on January 1, 2009. He remained a nonresident alien through 2013 and was able to exclude his scholarship from U.S. tax in those years under Article 20 of the U.S.-People's Republic of China income tax treaty. On January 1, 2014, he became a resident alien under the substantial presence test because his stay in the United States exceeded 5 years. Even though Mr. Yu is now a resident alien, the provisions of Article 20 still apply because of the exception to the saving clause in paragraph 2 of the Protocol to the U.S.-People's Republic of China treaty dated April 30, 1984. Mr. Yu should submit Form W-9 and the required statement to the payor.
综上所述，即使超过五年，但是还在合理的学习期限内，通过适当步骤还是可以享受treaty的。
备注：即使成了resident用不了treaty，多了standard deduction ($6,200)，没有吃大亏哟。
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作者: 桃桃桃喵喵喵 时间: 2014-11-18 16:20
求介绍standard deduction ($6,200)
作者: caiwade 时间: 2014-11-18 16:29
就是美国人正常来说是有一个standard deduction固定的$6,200，还有一个叫itemized deduction，itemized deduction的东西包括医疗啊，税啊，利息啊啥的。然后比较两者，哪个大就用哪个减你的总收入。而nonresident没有standard deduction，对于大多数人来说又没有什么可以itemized的，所以从这个角度来说，作为resident报税还比较划算的。
作者: 水果君 时间: 2014-12-22 00:50
先mark～
作者: 水果君 时间: 2014-12-22 00:51
和公民file joint return的话就没treaty了。。我记得是这样。。
作者: 子涵是个死小孩 时间: 2014-12-22 09:08
先马再读
作者: caiwade 时间: 2014-12-22 10:40
我之前也这样以为的，但是你看我文章最后IRS又给了这么个exception。。。
作者: 水果君 时间: 2014-12-22 11:00
但那个exception感觉没写清楚，我没income，我老公有income，他可以用我的treaty吗？
作者: caiwade 时间: 2014-12-22 12:09
However, if you entered the United States as a nonresident alien, but you are now a resident alien for U.S. tax purposes, the treaty exemption will continue to apply if the tax treaty's saving clause provides an exception for it...This is true even if you are a nonresident alien electing to file a joint return as explained in chapter 1.
根据这个的话，应该是可以的。。
作者: jiaomadan 时间: 2015-1-20 12:14
standard deduction是怎么实现啊？
要填什么特别的表么？
什么内容可以deduct呢？
这个和itemized deduction是不同的两个东西？
作者: caiwade 时间: 2015-1-20 12:24
standard deduction在1040上自带，会拿来和itemized deduction比较，哪个大用那个。
作者: jiaomadan 时间: 2015-1-20 12:30
那岂不是按resident报减6000多
比用f1学生报减5000要划算？
作者: 熊吉_KUMA 时间: 2015-2-4 21:54
ARTICLE 20
(Students and Trainees)
A student, business apprentice or trainee who is, or was immediately before visiting a Contracting State, a
resident of the other Contracting State and who is present in the first- mentioned Contracting State solely for the
purpose of his education, training or obtaining special technical experience shall be exempt from tax in that
Contracting State with respect to:
(a) payments received from abroad for the purpose of his maintenance, education, study, research
or training;
(b) grants or awards from a government, scientific, educational or other tax-exempt organization;
and
(c) income from personal services performed in that Contracting State in an amount not in excess
of 5,000 United States dollars or its equivalent in Chinese yuan for any taxable year.
The benefits provided under this Article shall extend only for such period of time as is reasonably
necessary to complete the education or training
看到最后红色的training，应该OPT期间也能claim treaty了。那如果夫妻一人H1，一人OPT，应该能file married jointly拿standard deduction同时，还能再claim treaty。有不同意见吗？
作者: hotmilkritata 时间: 2015-3-21 21:21
这个问题我一直在找答案啊，
好像在美国读完本科 之后再读的PhD间的收入就不能用这个treaty了
作者: 小PI孩儿 时间: 2015-3-28 19:29
想问一下 我也五年以上了 拿1099的按RESIDENT还是F1 TREATY核算呢
作者: 小PI孩儿 时间: 2015-3-28 19:30
还有 这个是手动填表报税呢还是用TAXTURBO比较好
作者: caiwade 时间: 2015-3-28 22:39
用resident这个没有疑问，能不能用treaty才是我讨论的问题。
作者: dazi 时间: 2015-5-17 08:21
就是超过5年的F1 免税额变成6200了吗
作者: caiwade 时间: 2015-5-17 14:48
那个叫standard deduction，可以这么理解吧。。
作者: virgobear 时间: 2015-8-31 11:04
版主 我还是想问一下 2014年 OPT 转 H1B，file extension之后用first year choice claim RA. File joint return， 老婆14年opt，未抽中后7月回国 。现在状态下我们还可以都用5000 的treaty吗？ 还是都不能用？ 谢谢
作者: caiwade 时间: 2015-8-31 11:30
Nonresident Spouse Treated as a Resident
If, at the end of your tax year, you are married and one spouse is a U.S. citizen or a resident alien and the other spouse is a nonresident alien, you can choose to treat the nonresident spouse as a U.S. resident. This includes situations in which one spouse is a nonresident alien at the beginning of the tax year, but a resident alien at the end of the year, and the other spouse is a nonresident alien at the end of the year.
If you make this choice, you and your spouse are treated for income tax purposes as residents for your entire tax year. Neither you nor your spouse can claim under any tax treaty not to be a U.S. resident. You are both taxed on worldwide income. You must file a joint income tax return for the year you make the choice, but you and your spouse can file joint or separate returns in later years.
作者: renzhe2007 时间: 2015-12-23 09:20
请问楼主 如果F1超过五年，报税是resident alien，那么可以同时享受5000的treaty和6200的standard deduction吗？多谢了
作者: caiwade 时间: 2015-12-23 11:55
Mr. Yu, a citizen of the People's Republic of China, entered the United States as a nonresident alien student on January 1, 2009. He remained a nonresident alien through 2013 and was able to exclude his scholarship from U.S. tax in those years under Article 20 of the U.S.-People's Republic of China income tax treaty. On January 1, 2014, he became a resident alien under the substantial presence test because his stay in the United States exceeded 5 years. Even though Mr. Yu is now a resident alien, the provisions of Article 20 still apply because of the exception to the saving clause in paragraph 2 of the Protocol to the U.S.-People's Republic of China treaty dated April 30, 1984. Mr. Yu should submit Form W-9 and the required statement to the payor.
你要仔细读呀。。
作者: CreditAdvance 时间: 2016-2-2 11:44
熊吉_KUMA 发表于 2015-2-4 21:54
ARTICLE 20
(Students and Trainees)
A student, business apprentice or trainee who is, or was immedia ...
不知道能不能夫妻一方H1B，一方F1，file jointly 然后H1B的claim itemized deduction, F1的claim treaty?
作者: caiwade 时间: 2016-2-2 12:03
If you make this choice, you and yourspouse are treated for income tax purposes asresidents for your entire tax year. Neither younor your spouse can claim under any tax treatynot to be a U.S. resident. You are both taxed onworldwide income.
Pub 519 Page 9
作者: CreditAdvance 时间: 2016-2-2 12:12
Thanks!
作者: Myuan21 时间: 2016-12-7 10:12
请问楼主这个treaty是只有中国国籍才可以用吗？
如果有这个list 请问哪里可以找得到？最近在看这方面的信息 可是IRS.com上没有找到这个list
作者: caiwade 时间: 2016-12-7 11:33
每个国家不一样的，在这里：
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/united-states-income-tax-treaties-a-to-z
作者: sssttt 时间: 2018-1-13 16:49
楼主好~最近也在研究这个treaty的问题~认真看了两个你写的帖子后（灰常有用！！）
有一个疑问 关于F1 non resident，married, 配偶是H1B这种情况，如果married file jointly可否用treaty, 在14年的这个帖子里，你回复说treaty 可以用http://www.moonbbs.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=741195&highlight=H1%E5%92%8CF1%E7%BB%93%E5%A9%9A%E8%81%94%E5%90%88%E6%8A%A5%E7%A8%8E
但是在本帖里面回复20楼和24楼，我理解你贴的那段话的意思是married file jointly 是不能claim treaty.....
想讨论一下哪个是正确的……望回复啊蟹蟹！！！！！
作者: 小闽小窝 时间: 2018-2-5 12:23
我和你有一样的疑问~
作者: Vicky---Leung 时间: 2018-2-9 10:48
问一下，用turbo tax 报了税，也填了-5000的treaty， 是不是还需要下载8833表格，然后邮寄？邮寄到哪？是给turbo tax 还是邮寄给美国官方？谢谢
作者: mkdir 时间: 2018-2-23 18:07
21楼和25楼那段条款是说你不能"claim not to be a U.S. resident"，不是说你不能claim treaty，所以并不矛盾，是可以用treaty的。尤其是P519后边举例的时候写了 "the treaty exemption will continue to apply if .. you meet the requirements ... even if you are a nonresident alien electing to file a joint return as explained in chapter 1". (Chapter 9. Tax Treaty Benefits, Students, Apprentices, Trainees, Teachers, Professors, and Researchers Who Became Resident Aliens)
换句话说，中美treaty允许你成为resident之后继续使用。
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